Love that sense of holding space and acting as a portal. I think of container when I’m co-leading heroine’s journey retreats in the forest. When we sit or dance or drum in a circle, we are creating a container to share our experiences and insights. When we hold council, everything that is said is for the good of all. The container is psychic, spiritual, built from stories. And it persists in the world long after we go our separate ways, to support us in our work.
Thank you, Julie. There is a real sense in your description of acting to create and sustain a container. That it persists - yes! When I think of my writing or drawing, there is a surface question of what did you make, a piece of work, a product, etc. But the effect of the container is such that I am met by something in the engagement.
I really like the idea of the container being one of those being/doing words that point at the paradoxical nature of being human. That was such a brilliant insight Priya!
Not all that came up for me when I thought about containers — I just see a sort of empty fish tank with clear glass walls… not sure what that means hmmm :)
Hi Michael, as always, thank you for being here. In depth psychology, the image (and this is not just a visual image, but can be words, sounds, etc; it's basically a snapshot of something from the interior world) is all important. One way to get more information is to explore what our associations to the image are. Is it a familiar fish tank? Is there water? You get the idea. Thank you, my friend!
Greetings Priya. Container... Decades ago, I went to a couple's workshop put on by Harville Hendrix (Getting the Love You Want). His theory about successful relationships is very interesting and intense. What hit me hard was the insistence that to work on a relationship, couples first need to agree and commit to close the exits. That is a container. Regardless how difficult facing the issues become, neither partner puts their sneakers on. I didn't make the commitment to that relationship.
I've been inspired by an image in Adolf Goggenburl-Craig's Marriage, Dead or Alive where it's argued that a successful marriage is a vessel for the partners' individuation. That image of a vessel suits me better as a container I'd like to park my soul in for some time.
Hi Richard, good to hear from you. I don't know the work of Hendrix but I want to say there is something about not having exits that can really strengthen a container, making it an alchemical vessel for change and transformation. Now, obviously, there are exceptions as well as extreme situations, and it is up to the individual to decide what works for them. But I am wondering if there is some overlap between Hendrix's idea and marriage as a vessel for individuation. Would love to hear more!
Sorry for the delayed response. Life's been a bit crazy for a while now. It's been a long time since I've studied depth psychology, so I may incorrectly or inadequately attribute some ideas.
That said, I understand individuation to mean becoming ones' fullest self - attuned to the possibilities of our particular lifetime.
Ira Progoff, in his "Intensive Journal" methodology, urges participants to seek retrospectives of the lived life, to recall and revisit urges that were not acted upon, perhaps finding life's intended destiny in paths not taken.
Harville Hendrix insists that we unknowingly choose partners who are uniquely qualified to poke us in ways that reopen old wounds. I recall him saying the partner we choose will have all the worst traits of our mother and our father - not visible to us initially. So, for example, I choose to be with someone who consistently stabs me in ways highlighting flaws that I'd prefer be ignored, like my subtle attention deficit disorder and consequential workshop, office and library disorganization. Hendrix would insist that both parties need to agree to work on themselves, using the uniqueness of their partner to assist. He has a protocol for structuring these activities, which may necessitate owning character attributes previously unknown to ourselves. This requires the closed exit agreement. This may not lead to partners' individuation in the larger scope of depth psychology, but it may provide a path.
When I think about marriage as a vessel for partners' separate but concurrent individuation, I envision a kind of deep caring that allows for paths that can take the partners in different directions while maintaining a close bond. Sadly, I've never known such a bond, and soon I'll flip the page to 75, so I have to accept just knowing it's possible for some.
Hi Richard, I don't know anything about Hendrix's work. From the description, it feels like becoming aware of what might be shadow qualities. For example, someone's mother may have been angry and may exhibit rage, and the child may send aggression (and healthy assertion) into the shadow where it lies outside of conscious awareness. Becoming aware of that quality within one, first as a projection, my partner is..., and then exploring that within ourselves, we may bring awareness of what lies buried within us.
I agree that deep caring may offer one a scaffolding that allows for greater wholeness in self and in relationship. Jung writes "The meeting with oneself is, at first, the meeting with one's own shadow. The shadow is a tight passage, a narrow door, whose painful constriction no one is spared who goes down to the deep well.." (Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious, CW 9.1). The shadow may be our first encounter in the process of whole-making that is individuation (bringing awareness to the parts of ourselves we aren't conscious of, or becoming conscious of what others (parts, potentials) are within us). It's a fascinating topic and I could go on! Thank you for sharing all these different exercises and your knowledge.
Love that sense of holding space and acting as a portal. I think of container when I’m co-leading heroine’s journey retreats in the forest. When we sit or dance or drum in a circle, we are creating a container to share our experiences and insights. When we hold council, everything that is said is for the good of all. The container is psychic, spiritual, built from stories. And it persists in the world long after we go our separate ways, to support us in our work.
Thank you, Julie. There is a real sense in your description of acting to create and sustain a container. That it persists - yes! When I think of my writing or drawing, there is a surface question of what did you make, a piece of work, a product, etc. But the effect of the container is such that I am met by something in the engagement.
I really like the idea of the container being one of those being/doing words that point at the paradoxical nature of being human. That was such a brilliant insight Priya!
Not all that came up for me when I thought about containers — I just see a sort of empty fish tank with clear glass walls… not sure what that means hmmm :)
Hi Michael, as always, thank you for being here. In depth psychology, the image (and this is not just a visual image, but can be words, sounds, etc; it's basically a snapshot of something from the interior world) is all important. One way to get more information is to explore what our associations to the image are. Is it a familiar fish tank? Is there water? You get the idea. Thank you, my friend!
Thank you Priya. I appreciate the tips. :)
Greetings Priya. Container... Decades ago, I went to a couple's workshop put on by Harville Hendrix (Getting the Love You Want). His theory about successful relationships is very interesting and intense. What hit me hard was the insistence that to work on a relationship, couples first need to agree and commit to close the exits. That is a container. Regardless how difficult facing the issues become, neither partner puts their sneakers on. I didn't make the commitment to that relationship.
I've been inspired by an image in Adolf Goggenburl-Craig's Marriage, Dead or Alive where it's argued that a successful marriage is a vessel for the partners' individuation. That image of a vessel suits me better as a container I'd like to park my soul in for some time.
Hi Richard, good to hear from you. I don't know the work of Hendrix but I want to say there is something about not having exits that can really strengthen a container, making it an alchemical vessel for change and transformation. Now, obviously, there are exceptions as well as extreme situations, and it is up to the individual to decide what works for them. But I am wondering if there is some overlap between Hendrix's idea and marriage as a vessel for individuation. Would love to hear more!
Sorry for the delayed response. Life's been a bit crazy for a while now. It's been a long time since I've studied depth psychology, so I may incorrectly or inadequately attribute some ideas.
That said, I understand individuation to mean becoming ones' fullest self - attuned to the possibilities of our particular lifetime.
Ira Progoff, in his "Intensive Journal" methodology, urges participants to seek retrospectives of the lived life, to recall and revisit urges that were not acted upon, perhaps finding life's intended destiny in paths not taken.
Harville Hendrix insists that we unknowingly choose partners who are uniquely qualified to poke us in ways that reopen old wounds. I recall him saying the partner we choose will have all the worst traits of our mother and our father - not visible to us initially. So, for example, I choose to be with someone who consistently stabs me in ways highlighting flaws that I'd prefer be ignored, like my subtle attention deficit disorder and consequential workshop, office and library disorganization. Hendrix would insist that both parties need to agree to work on themselves, using the uniqueness of their partner to assist. He has a protocol for structuring these activities, which may necessitate owning character attributes previously unknown to ourselves. This requires the closed exit agreement. This may not lead to partners' individuation in the larger scope of depth psychology, but it may provide a path.
When I think about marriage as a vessel for partners' separate but concurrent individuation, I envision a kind of deep caring that allows for paths that can take the partners in different directions while maintaining a close bond. Sadly, I've never known such a bond, and soon I'll flip the page to 75, so I have to accept just knowing it's possible for some.
Hi Richard, I don't know anything about Hendrix's work. From the description, it feels like becoming aware of what might be shadow qualities. For example, someone's mother may have been angry and may exhibit rage, and the child may send aggression (and healthy assertion) into the shadow where it lies outside of conscious awareness. Becoming aware of that quality within one, first as a projection, my partner is..., and then exploring that within ourselves, we may bring awareness of what lies buried within us.
I agree that deep caring may offer one a scaffolding that allows for greater wholeness in self and in relationship. Jung writes "The meeting with oneself is, at first, the meeting with one's own shadow. The shadow is a tight passage, a narrow door, whose painful constriction no one is spared who goes down to the deep well.." (Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious, CW 9.1). The shadow may be our first encounter in the process of whole-making that is individuation (bringing awareness to the parts of ourselves we aren't conscious of, or becoming conscious of what others (parts, potentials) are within us). It's a fascinating topic and I could go on! Thank you for sharing all these different exercises and your knowledge.